Recent National Survey of Christian Women Reveals – Things Going Great!
Two months ago Jim Henderson and Lisa Whittle contracted with The Barna Group to ask women to respond to a number of questions about their experience with the church.
They (Barna Group) spoke with 603 women who met the following qualifications: 18 years or older, described themselves as “Christian” And had attended a Christian church service at least once during the past six months. Among those women, 63% met the survey criteria for being a “Born Again Christian.”
The complete survey findings will not be available until 2011 when our books are published but since we’re using these stats to help shape our thinking we thought it would be interesting to get the feedback from an even larger audience to see how they responded to some of the data.
To be fair, Lisa and I found the picture these statistics paint somewhat skewed toward an unusually positive view of things. However we might be wrong- these stats may in fact reflect how the majority of Christian women see things regarding their personal sense of spiritual fulfillment and access to influence and leadership in the church.
That’s why we want to hear from you! Especially if you agree with these statistics!
And if you disagree with them tell us why you think so many women disagree with you.
Choose whatever statistics speak to you and tell us your story.
Please post your response on our blog and (whenever possible) use your real name and tell us if you are willing for us to contact you with follow up questions.
(NOTE: by posting your story here you agree that we may use it in any of our publications)
Also please help us by posting this article on your Facebook, Twitter or Blog
Feel free to respond to one or several of the statistics. We are not looking for yes/no answers. We’re looking for all kinds of stories that substantiate, support, or refute and challenge these findings.
Here’s what we want to know…
Do these statistics match your experience?
1. 84% say that their church’s perspective on women in ministry is almost identical, very similar, or somewhat similar to their own.
2. 83% say that their Senior Pastor is somewhat, highly or completely supportive of women leading in their church
3. 82% say they can tell by their church’s actions that the church values the leadership of women
4. 81% say that their church provides women with the same degree of leadership opportunities as Jesus would.
5. 72% say they possess a lot of spiritual freedom in their life
6. 70% say that the media has little influence on their decision-making
7. 71% say fear is not something they experience ever or often in their life
8. 62% say that ALL leadership roles are open to them in their church.
9. Only 1% say they often struggle with jealousy
10. Among those who feel they are capable of doing more to serve God, and should be doing more, only 4% say that their fear of failure is holding them back from doing more to serve God.
Tags: Barna, Christian women, Lisa Whittle, Statistics, Women and Leadership
kt said
am July 3 2010 @ 4:02 pm
I think most of these statistics are relatively true if you consider that this sense of “liberty”is relegated to women giving leadership in the realm of womens ministry and childrens ministry. I also feel that many of these trends vary greatly from region to region and denomination to denomination.
However, in my experience Evangelical churches and seminaries are still bastions of male dominated leadership and teaching. Sure many pastors “say” they promote women in leadership, but in action women aren’t the ones who get to preach or get hired for leadership roles. Further, doctrines can still be heard relating the ills of church to women not submitting to men. By the way, there is no biblical reference to “women” submitting to “men.” In Ephesians Paul is speaking to husbands and wives. To be sure, in most Evangelical colleges and seminaries there are plenty of opportunities for women in “women in ministry” type degrees. But, there is still a glass ceiling. You are more likely to hear sermons with allegories relating to sports (typically more male) than any kind of experience common to the whole congregation.
I truly feel that many women (and men I might add) who have very pastoral gifts become professional counselors. They more or less operate in their gifting “outside” the church. I will also say that as much as I see women passed by I see many gifted men passed by as well. I think much of the overall”problem” is that what we know as church is not a place where “all” the gifts have opportunity to function. So much of what happens on a weekly basis is based on roles and hierarchy not spiritual giftings and function. In many ways without all the gifts functioning (whether that be in a girl body or boy body) the church lacks maturity and potency.
Jim Henderson said
am July 5 2010 @ 12:19 am
71% never experience fear!
Makes me wish I were an evangelical woman.
I find this data stunning.
My knee jerk reaction is to say that the disheartened have already left the building but have no idea how to verify that.
I guess the background questions would be something like “what is your perception of people who challenge the leadership or structure of your church?”,
can you identify obvious channels to express what god is calling you to do?
does the prospect of following a calling away from your church frighten you?”
my not so subtle assumption here is that “me thinks she doth protest too much.”
Monica Krause said
am July 5 2010 @ 10:29 am
Oh, I disagree with MUCH of this article.
I agree-the statistics are skewed because many have left the building. Lack of time now, but can opine later.
I would like to see how the Barna Group random sampled these women. I just took Statistics so know a wee bit about true sampling.
Monica Krause said
am July 5 2010 @ 10:30 am
and the 1% jealousy thing is laughable
Jessica Schafer said
am July 5 2010 @ 1:59 pm
I’m one of the women that’s already left the building. I grew up in a mixed denomination, but very evangelical church on the missionfield. I can remember specifically a sermon series preached on the requirements to be an elder and the emphasis that to be an elder you had to be male. I remember hushed, judgmental comments when the local state church received a new pastor: a female. More evidence that the state church was way too liberal to really be Christian.
More recently, I worked at an evangelical university. The gender inequality shows up in the ratio of chapel speakers and the fact that the women speakers invited were usually only the most well-known (and therefore kosher) names. It shows up in the general administration of the school, with most of the VPs and key administrators male. Even though the student body is heavily female, women staff have much less influence and voice. On average, I’d say most staff and students don’t even notice that this kind of gender disparity exists. Its a miracle that the school has a Gender Studies Institute, one of the first of its kind in evangelical schools. Yet, the institute was asked not to use the name of the keynote speaker in the advertising for their symposium in October of last year, because the speaker (female) was too controversial. One step forward, two steps back.
In my experience only one of the evangelical churches/institutions I’ve attended in my life even gave lip service to the idea that women were equally capable of leading in the church in all roles, not just in women’s ministries or with children. Even then, the pastor was still male.
The survey results don’t surprise me that much. I’ve just spent three years working with evangelical female undergrads. It was the rare young women who talked about ordination or had spiritual aspirations beyond being a good support to some future husband. Ironically, the young women tended to be miles ahead of the young men in terms of spiritual maturity–I’ve seen so many relationships end because the young man wasn’t being enough of a “spiritual leader”. Quashing women’s voices in the church isn’t just harming the women–the weight of pressure and expectation on young men is damaging them, too.
Denie Tackett said
am July 5 2010 @ 2:46 pm
I would have to disagree with most of the findings of the stats. In most churches I have been involved with or member of I did not find that women have the same equality as the men. Women were thought of as helpers or help mates for the men. Positions of authority were only for men, women were to help with children, cleaning, planning of parties..etc and always under the direction of the men and only if given approval by the male leadership first. Several years ago I walked away from the church (not God, but the church) this is were I found freedom, freedom to become who I was called to be. Outside of the church is were I could hear is His voice and His calling on my life, away from the institution that was telling me what a good Christian woman should be doing. I now run a ministry to those on the streets and have been for almost three years now. A ministry run by a woman and volunteers that are mostly women. I have had several Pastors want to get involved, each telling me that I should let them take over that a man should be running it. That a man should have authority over it and that I should be a helper, that woman’s position was to be a servant to help with a ministry and not run it. In saying no, standing my ground and staying true to what God as called me to do, I have found myself reject from some churches, called some things I will not repeat here and have even had a Pastor tell the congregation that they were not allowed to participate in the outreach. I do not want to give the impression that I think all churches or all men think this way. I have met several men the past year that do support women and their callings. One of those men Bishop Hunter has helped restore my faith that we can work together men and women to support each other and work together as one body in Christ for the benefit of others. I have even recently started attending a church who is there to support and up lift all in the congregation, no matter what position you are called to or whether you are a man or a woman. The problem is these people and churches are far and few in between. We need to start seeing the beautiful gifts and callings that women have on their lives. Drawing on those gifts and allowing women to become all they were created to be, not just a help mate.
Among those who feel they are capable of doing more to serve God, and should be doing more, only 4% say that their fear of failure is holding them back from doing more to serve God.
I would have to say this percentage is probably much higher. I know and have spoken to many women who feel they have callings on their lives, but fear does hold them back. It is not fear of stepping out and moving into their calling, it is a fear of being rejected by their church, friends and family. Fear that if they buck the system or step out of the roles that the church has established, they will be rejected and find themselves on the outside. Many have expressed that they would rather live a life that is expected of them, rather than face the fear of rejection.
kathyescobar said
am July 5 2010 @ 4:25 pm
well i had to read those stats several times, thinking “am i mis-reading them or what?” i agree with so much of what’s already been said by the other commenters & really appreciated pam’s post on this, too. my two cents is that this is a good indicator of how deeply engrained gender inequality really is in churches. and how most women just think “that’s how it is supposed to be” because it’s all that they’ve been taught. there just aren’t that many solid models of something different in the evangelical church. i think another survey should be taken of women who have “left the building” and i think the results would be substantially different. to be honest, this just makes me sad and reminds me of how powerful and strong “the system” really is.
Helen said
am July 5 2010 @ 6:07 pm
I think the moral dimension affects these survey results a lot. In a world where “God says it, I believe it, that settles it” it’s sin to object to the teachings that women can’t lead.
And in that world you grow as a Christian by submitting and accepting. A lot of the questions in effect are asking “are you growing as a Christian?” and who wants to say “no” to that?
kt said
am July 5 2010 @ 8:19 pm
I am really appreciating these comments. I think women (and many men) leaving the church to function in their calling is huge. It is truly grievous. What is left in the church is a form of religion without all the gifts present and working. I think what people miss in the gospels is that Jesus wasn’t into religion either. He was the one going around talking to women and touching lepers – which were huge religious Fuax Pas. He was all about people hearing from the Father and doing what “Abba” said. Francis Schaeffer points out that by calling Mary to his feet in the Mary/Martha scenario, Jesus is calling her to become a disciple. Traditionally, she wasn’t even supposed to in the room and Martha was being the righteous one. But, to be called to come and learn from THE teacher was truly Radical!
I applaud Denie for doing what she is called to do. Sadly, her story of having a male leader come along and say male leadership should be put in place is not uncommon. It is deeply wounding. I am so sad to hear you were more or less black balled in the community. This too isn’t rare. Siiiiiiigggh!
My greatest sadness is for the children being raised in these ongoing traditions. We learn by what is modeled. Therefore,every girl(and boy) sitting through youth group being taught by the male-twenty-something-recent-graduate-from-seminary whose wife is at home chasing their toddler while suffering morning sickness is learning something. How women functioning in the church is valued may not be overtly stated, but it’s communicated none the less.
Just so you know where I’m coming from, I’m one who left the traditional church over 15 years ago practicing my faith with a small band of believers in house churches. I have functioned in many different leadership roles in these settings (this is not a weird plug for house “churching” – “Many are called”but few can stand it). Even so I feel no less called to serve and love the greater church of my city when opportunity arises (I’m involved in a para-church organization too). On several occasions I’ve served & taught at churches I know would never hire me as a pastor or any leadership capacity. Often, these opportunities are challenging for my heart, but I have to leave it all to the Lord to sort it out. It’s His family and I’m not the boss.
All that said, I to wonder at the sample these stats were drawn from as well.
Mary R Snyder said
am July 5 2010 @ 10:50 pm
I’ve read this post a couple of times just to let this sink in and I’m still wondering just who are these women? Who are they?
I could tackle each one of these points, but that would take most of the night and more words than you are probably interested in reading. I am going to settle in on a few points.
Again, who are these women? I want to meet them. And I would like to see what they wear, how they dress, what they drive and where they live. I want to see the books they read, the movies they watch and the tv shows on the DVR. I want to ask “how are you able to rise above this cultural hold?”
Now on to the 71% who never experienced fear — really? Truly? You’ve never been afraid of rejection? of not fitting in? of getting it wrong? of not getting it right? Never? Well, sister I applaud you, because while I have a strong faith in God, I’ve experienced fear. I don’t stand in it and I refuse to allow the enemy a toe-hold in my life, but I’ve had moments of fear — I’ve had it strike my heart when the phone rang late one night and my teenager wasn’t home (praise God, nothing happened). I’ve had it hit me sideways before I’ve stepped onto a platform to speak to a group of women and in that moment I grabbed onto Christ and walked in His strength and power. But yes, I have experienced fear.
Now, for the 99% who do not struggle with jealousy — oh please girl, do not try to sell me that mess.
These three points are a perfect view of responding the way you ‘think you should.’ Sadly, this is how I lived a good portion of my Christian life — I just did what I thought I was supposed to and said the right things. If you had asked me these questions ten years ago, I would probably have answered that I never have a spirit of fear, I’m never jealous of anyone and the media had little influence on me and it would have been a PACK of lies. But I was trying so hard to wear the right mask and fit in. I didn’t want anyone to see the chinks in the armor I had so carefully crafted.
Sadly, many women are so caught up in trying to ‘be’ the right thing that they don’t know just what they are missing in the freedom of Christ.
This whole list just makes me sad, so sad.
Lee Merrill said
am July 6 2010 @ 5:50 am
Anytime I see statistics that are way high or way low, I am skeptical.
While I have a positive view of the leadership opportunities for women at my church, I can honestly say that this subject is not a huge area of concern for me. God opens the doors He wants me to walk through.
The survey results I find unbelievable and disturbing are the ones that indicate most women are experiencing spiritual freedom in their lives and no fear.
I’m sorry, but that’s ridiculous! If that were true, Beth Moore would be unknown. Women purchase every book she writes because we are steeped in insecurity, fear, defeat, and strongholds. We are desperate to be free-free from the pressure to measure up to the media-driven standard of beauty, free from bitterness, anger, and unforgiveness toward those who have hurt us, free from the ungodly expectation of being “all together” all the time in order to be godly.
To me, these survey results prove that women are afraid to be themselves…even on an anonymous survey!
My prayer is that God will show the researchers how to get to the heart of the issue and how to convince women to be brutally honest about what they are feeling.
Luann Prater said
am July 6 2010 @ 7:13 am
Wow! Lee, I’m glad you ‘encouraged’ me to peek at these stats. I can tell you that speaking across the country in all types of churches, in all denominations, there is mind-numbing fear. Women are afraid to be judged by others, so they paint on the smile and say ‘fine’ when asked, “How are you?” But when you allow them to ‘get real’ in a safe environment, the masks peel off and the wounds begin to heal.
Who are these women? Look around, they are sitting in the pew beside you at church. They just haven’t lifted their mask for fear of your reaction.
Sandy Reynolds said
am July 6 2010 @ 8:44 am
I work with a Canadian non-profit that provides leadership development for Christian women. We did our own survey in Canada in partnership with EFC and the Forum for Women in Ministry Leadership. Our findings would not line up with yours at all. In fact, we discovered that it didn’t matter what success a woman has had in business, life or ministry there was one thing they all identified as a need – confidence.
We have a woman on our team doing international research on women and I am certain her research does not line up with this.
I won’t repeat any of the views already expressed here. I was a pastor’s wife for 25 years and I can tell you that even if the pastor is supportive of women in leadership that means very little if the denomination or board do not agree. When we voted in our congregation regarding women as elders – it was women who spoke out most loudly and passionately AGAINST it. Years of indoctrination by the church has led women to internalize these views.
I am not actively involved in a church right now and one of the criteria for my next faith community is the affirmation of women as leaders.
PS – Another woman on our leadership team has written a great book – Gender or Giftedness. It is worth reading.
drinking the company kool-aid « the carnival in my head said
am July 6 2010 @ 11:46 am
[...] that’s what happened this past week. i noticed a facebook post from jim henderson about a recent barna survey of christian women. he is writing a book about women & the church. when i read the stats i had to re-read them [...]
Faith McCloud said
am July 6 2010 @ 4:24 pm
I don’t know if what I have will add anything helpful to the conversation, but here is my experience as a 32 yr old wife and mom who is now in seminary and has finally stopped arguing with God concerning my call to be a Pastor. *grin*
My first encounter with the “issue” of women in positions of power in the Church, namely teaching and pastorate roles, was in college. For a project I was required to call my home church and ask what the official stance on women was. At the time, I would have answered exactly like the women in the above stats. So when I heard my Pastor say women were not allowed to teach men, or pastor, I was shocked. I look back now and wonder how I could have assumed otherwise… but here is the thing, it was never overtly stated… ever. Instead it was a very quiet, subtle thing. Women never stood at the pulpit, women were not elders. I was never presented with the possibility of Seminary for my future. I was never encouraged to use my gifts in ministry.
One of the very subtle ways the church trains women is to make us think, from a very young age, that serving is the noblest of calls. We are to stand behind the men in leadership, knowing that they couldn’t do it with out us. We are to be proud of taking a lesser role. And if you don’t want to do that, then you are sinning against God with pride and lust for power. Again, all this taught very subtly. I think this may contribute to why women lash out against those who try to break free of this. We were taught it was sin.
Now that God is making it obnoxiously clear that I am gifted in and am created to be a Pastor, I am realizing just how powerful those subtle messages were in my life. To the point where I know I will always have that nagging, worrisome question deep inside wondering if I am willfully ignoring God by doing what I love best; preaching God’s Kingdom. How sick is that!
karleneclark.com Are Christian Women Really That Happy? said
am July 6 2010 @ 4:27 pm
[...] conducting research for a book on Christian women, Jim Henderson of Off the Map commissioned a respected polling organization to gather some data. The results are a bit… [...]
christy a said
am July 6 2010 @ 5:38 pm
I would disagree with #7,9 and 10. I think, as a woman, I struggle more with fear of failure, especially with serving in the church than the one’s interviewed. I also think jealousy is more of a problem than the survey indicates. When you see someone in the church that has a million talents, it is easy to get jealous of their talents and be afraid of trying yourself. I think our church is supportive of woman in ministry as long as it looks like it should. There are definitely places for the woman in ministry and it rarely includes leading a mixed (meaning both men and woman in the class) Sunday school class.
Dana said
am July 6 2010 @ 6:51 pm
I would recommend reading “I Told Me So: Self-Deception and the Christian Life” by Gregg A. Ten Elshof
That might explain the results of the survey.
Women want men to marry, raise children and go to church with them. The men are willing to do so as long as the women agree that the men are in charge. The women get what they want and the men either are in charge or are allowed to believe that they are in charge. Everyone is happy.
I do not believe that the answers received in that survey reflect reality.
One of the points in Ten Elshof’s book is that self-deception is a strategy that allows us to carry on with life until we can admit and handle the truth. I believe that women love their children and are determined to provide them with a father and religous family life no matter the cost to themselves.
Jim h said
am July 6 2010 @ 7:15 pm
Keep the responses coming
very helpful for Lisa and my projects
Karen said
am July 6 2010 @ 7:26 pm
Thanks Dana! That says tons. I too couldn’t believe the survey results and immediately thought “these women were either a)dishonest or b)self-deceived.” I worked for a period of time as an associate pastor, and have a sister who is a pastor now (interim – they voted not to have her be senior but to look for ‘someone else’). I have often seen that women are often the strongest opponents to allowing women to hold formal ministry roles. I’ve experienced it from other women as fear; that if some are willing to step up into the fullness of their calling as leaders, then others might have to take responsibility to do the same. It’s easier to hide behind a flawed theology and dominant men. I would also recommend “Gender and Giftedness” by Lynn Smith for those who have been wounded in this area.
Faith McCloud said
am July 6 2010 @ 7:36 pm
As Karen pointed out fear may play a huge part in this. I have seen that fear and experienced it as well. But it is not just fear of having to “step up”, it is also the fear of taking on an entire cultural system. Its a fear of putting your heart out there knowing it be will flayed into shreds. Its brutal getting told you can’t serve a congregation because your gender is a fundamental flaw.
For what its worth, I think a huge part of the problem may be a screwed up view of the Trinity. Many of my women friends come from a tradition that views the Trinity as a hierarchy and that humanity is modeled after that hierarchy.
sonja said
am July 7 2010 @ 7:05 am
Hey Jim …
All I can say is wow. Then well … wow.
But. I’m the daughter of a mental health statistician. I cut my teeth on these kind of things. So I want to know, what kind of questions were 603 women asked? Is this a compilation of some data points? Or does each statistic represent a question?
How did the women report? Were the surveys done over the phone, or on some form of “paper” (either virtual or real)? I ask that question because people do respond differently to a person on the phone than they do a piece of paper.
Soooo … I guess I’d love to see more background concerning this study. It’s certainly provocative. And like many women who are commenting here, leaves me with a lot of concerns. And … yes, I will blog about it at my tiny space on the internet. Will send you link soonest. Thanks for sharing these datapoints.
Minnow said
am July 7 2010 @ 9:22 am
Linked from Carnival.
WOW! I wonder if there’s a corelation between these stats and the numbers of people leaving the church building. Interesting too that nearly 100% of the comments/links suggest these stats are off despite your encouragement especially to those who agree to comment. I think a subtle revelation through the comments and the stats might be that when these women who were polled answered they did not look at things like just where are women allowed to lead and so if they were found in any venue within the building they were considered “leadership” AKA not too many men sign up for nursery or wedding reception planner.
I actually had the senior pastor in the fellowship I left just over a year ago tell me that the question was not “Can women lead?” or “Do women have equal ability to men?” He thought they could and do and even have superior abilities in some cases. The question is does God allow it and the answer is a resounding no. Thus according to this person God gifts women in all kinds of leadership ways but then tell them to obey Him and not use their gifts (unless they are under the authority of a man). No joke. Just a very sad reality for those left in the building. (The real problem in his position is that he can’t support it Biblically at all since to do so he has to accept half of some verses and reject as not culturally relavant or hyperbole the other half of the same verses).
sharla yates said
am July 7 2010 @ 12:38 pm
I notice that many of the women responding have left the church in the traditional sense. And people are scratching their heads all around the country and wondering why — why, lord–why is the church dying on the vine? Churches posture, sing, pray, cry out, waiting for a revival — when the revival may not be at all what they want, because in my view, revival needs to happen in the back offices, behind the lacquer smiles of the clergy, between the foyer and the pulpit. We must seek justice. We must. Otherwise, intelligent, gifted and called men and women will leave. They will pack up their bags and go somewhere they can be of “real” use. And the pews will collect dust.
Good luck, Jim. I hope you find something real and tangible in your research.
Ginger Jones said
am July 7 2010 @ 11:16 pm
I totally disagree with the results of the “survey”. Having grown up attending a Bible church in the Bible belt, memorizing Scripture, attending Bible college, teaching women’s Bible studies for 25 years, I know that the reported statistics do not reflect the way many women feel. I have not been able to use my gifts to build up the church body. Males have always been in charge of decisions, with token females rubber stamping their decisions. It is not safe to disagree, to ask questions, to go against the status quo. In our local church, women can teach children and other women, sell books in the bookstore, pass out coffee, plan women’s retreats, Bible studies, etc but don’t seem to notice that they have no say in things that truly matter.
At 60 years of age, I have left the building with great regret and longing to be connected to a body of fellow believers. I am afraid that I will never find a group of people honestly seeking to know God, love and obey Him and share the good news that Jesus has come to reconcile us to the Father!
I encourage you to go deeper with your survey and see if the findings are truly indicative of the thoughts of women in the church.
A nasty one for the “sisters” : Stop The ACLU said
am July 8 2010 @ 9:27 am
[...] SOURCE [...]
Elaine said
am July 8 2010 @ 10:05 am
I, too, was shocked by the results of your survey and am convinced that they are not reflective of reality. Humanity is great at rationalizing our fears so we don’t have to label them fears. Jealousy is very clearly unBiblical, so who’s going to admit to being jealous? How incredibly sad that so many of the women who completed your survey didn’t think they could be honest even on an anonymous survey (I recognize I’m making assumptions based on my inability to believe your results to be accurate). Women in churches with a glass ceiling in terms of leadership opportunities often don’t know there’s a glass ceiling unless they bump into it, and then they are often forced to choose between leaving their church (which has been a family to them) to follow their call, or staying in the church and rationalizing not following their call. Many other women live their whole lives never seeing women in pastoral leadership roles especially and therefore it doesn’t even occur to them to consider pastoral leadership as a possibility.
I read the various women’s comments and they grieved my heart. I am a Canadian woman in her late 30′s who’s been in pastoral ministry for the last 12 years, the last 5 of which have been in the Lead Minister role. And yet, even in my role I recognize that many of my colleagues don’t think I should be doing what I do. There are plenty of people who won’t ever come to our church because there’s a woman in the pulpit most Sundays. I am also aware that even in my denomination which officially supports and encourages women to use their gifts regardless of what those gifts are, there are plenty of churches in the denomination that don’t. If I were looking for a new church, the list of those available to me would be significantly shorter than that of my male colleagues. And yet, as more and more women follow their call with a spirit of grace and humility, not concerned about proving their right to be there, attitudes and prejudices are being changed. I am reminded just how blessed I am by my denominational support, my church’s support, and the incredible and large group of mentors who have encouraged and equiped me over the years. To those women who have written above of their hurt, please don’t give up. There are churches out there more interested in being the Body of Christ in which there is no male and female, than following arbitrary laws more culturally influenced than Biblically.
Emerging Women » Blog Archive » Women’s Church Experience said
am July 8 2010 @ 4:27 pm
[...] a bit of what the survey discovered [...]
steve lewis said
am July 8 2010 @ 5:15 pm
As a white, middle class male, I am less interested in my response to this than the rest of the excellent comments that have already been shared here. However, I had written the following on my blog, and at Jim’s request am posting them here.
First, my general response to all the happy attitudes of women about their church is to be cynically curious about how this data will be viewed by the surging camp of neo-Reformed church planters and pastors, who are set on asserting a masculine version of church. We might hear things like: “Of course the women are happy – they’ve emasculated all the men in the church in order to create a place they want to hang out and talk about their feelings.”
My other main response is shocked disbelief at the response that 70% of the women surveyed say that media has little influence on their decision making. Without the benefit of seeing the survey design and validation, I’ll give the pollster the benefit of the doubt to assume the data is sound. If that’s the case, the vast majority of those 70% are delusional. Harsh critique, I know, but I’ve got a few reasons:
1. If these people really think that the media doesn’t affect their decisions, they are likely as naive/ignorant as all the advertising and marketing companies of the world hope they are. We live in a media saturated culture, and they don’t seem to understand the degree to which media influence is all around them. Here’s a hint folks – corporations aren’t dumping millions of dollars into television commercials because they hope it works, but because it works.
2. Part of the lack of understanding of media influence may be attributable to the way the word “media” is used in our culture. This is especially the case if you insert the word “the” in front of it. We often hear sentences that blame “the media” for over-hyping one issue or distorting another or completely ignoring still more issues. There are multiple reasons this is problematic – but the biggest one is that people think of “the media” as being synonymous with “the news,” so when we hear media named, we automatically think: local and national television news programs, newspapers and magazines, news blogs, etc. But the media extends so much farther – movies, music, entertainment web sites, “reality” television, glamour magazines, pop-fiction novels. This blog is a media outlet. All of these have a tremendous collective influence on all of us, and to think that our decisions take place outside of that realm is silly – again, the fact that we don’t notice the influence is by design.
3. As it concerns Christians, you also have to include Christian media in the media category. Typically, Christian media voices talk about “the media” as though they’re not a part of it, which is patently false. And when mainstream evangelical Christian media voices talk about “the media,” they are almost without exception speaking in negative tones about the immorality or “bad” politics promoted there. So when Christians hear this, and then question whether “the media” has affected their decisions, they are well trained to think, “No, I’m not like ‘the media,’ because I hold different values and beliefs. My decisions are influenced by my faith, my church, and my family.” Sorry folks, but you’re just not as objective as you might think.
I could go on, but I’ll stop there. Before closing, though, let me just say that I am not opposed to media influencing peoples’ decisions. I’m opposed to the naive belief that it doesn’t happen. At the very least, this is simplistic . . . but more than likely, it’s willful ignorance.
Malcolm said
am July 8 2010 @ 8:02 pm
The overall impression I get from this is that most of the comments are made by people who, consciously or unconsciously, think of “leadership” in terms of power and prestige, rather than service. Perhaps the women approached in the survey understand what Jesus meant when he said:”Whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be the slave or all. For the Son of man also came not to be served, but to serve.” (Mark 10:43-44)
mike said
am July 9 2010 @ 1:03 am
those stats lead me to one of two conclusions.
1. barna is incapable of conducting an accurate random
poll
or
2. the women polled have taken the “blue pill” and are
still living in the “matrix” as mindless controlled
machines.
Erin said
am July 9 2010 @ 1:27 am
I agree with Kathy and Helen. Women who depend on such a situation are incapable of seeing things any other way. If God has “mandated” that things be a certain way, and if their fathers and/or husbands support that mandate, what choice do they have? They are prisoners.
Women are historically resilient and will make the best of whatever situation they are in, even to their own detriment — and will portray themselves as far happier than they really are if it benefits their position to believe that. I see it very much as a spiritual Stockholm Syndrome. Only as one who has been there and gotten out can I say that, and it has taken years of “deprogramming” to recover.
Mike Clawson said
am July 9 2010 @ 9:54 am
What these results say to me is that most women attend churches that already agree with their own beliefs about gender roles. That, to me, is not so surprising. Most of us tend to gravitate towards like-minded people.
I’m also not sure these results indicate that a lot of women are in denial about the oppression they face in church. Did the survey also record what their churches actually do believe and practice regarding women? A lot of these questions could be answered the same way, regardless of whether a church is highly supportive of female leadership or highly restrictive of it, since the survey mainly just reflects whether or not the respondent agrees with what their church teaches, not what those teachings actually are. I.e. a woman could be in very progressive mainline church that is supportive of women (Episcopalian, UCC, etc.) and still respond that:
- their church’s perspective on women in ministry is almost identical, very similar, or somewhat similar to their own.
- their Senior Pastor is somewhat, highly or completely supportive of women leading in their church
- they can tell by their church’s actions that the church values the leadership of women
- their church provides women with the same degree of leadership opportunities as Jesus would.
- they possess a lot of spiritual freedom in their life
- ALL leadership roles are open to them in their church.
So unless these results are correlated with the actual attitudes of their churches towards women, this survey doesn’t really tell us a whole lot, except that women tend to go to churches they agree with.
Liz Levesque said
am July 9 2010 @ 2:35 pm
Thanks for posting this survey. As a church going woman I would have to respond in the “Amen” category with all 603 women in this survey. Women in church are much happier women. Especially if they stick to the teachings in the Bible which show that Jesus is 100% in favor of cooperative leadership rather than some male to female gender quota.
Having been in church leadership for 25 years I can say that it is a tough position because there are so many people in crisis that you end up being very drained. However, it is rewarding to see people taking charge of their lives and transforming with God’s love and power.
Creeping American Woman’s Liberation theology has made it very difficult in the church in terms of male to female ratios in leadership. Honestly? I have met some seriously bossy women who think that for every male in leadership there should be an equal number of females even though, as in every other professional setting, you need a degree, I have an MA-Theology, and it is important to be schooled in your profession, so you aren’t “shooting from the hip” as so many are want to do these days. Many times, through lack of qualification and education there are no women capable of leading. Church leadership is a tireless job and many women are busy with careers, children, grandchildren and para church organizations.
So, I would have to agree with the statistics of these 603 women. To dispute these statistics is to continue a nasty trend of not believing women, especially church women. If this is how they feel and how they want it reported they need to be believed. Just cause you have left the building doesn’t mean that the women, like me, who are still in the building, deserved to be discounted or diminished. Alot of the unmet expectations about “gender equality” in the church have caused people to leave but these expectations are unrealistic, are often “sour grapes” because someone didn’t step aside for some radical “woman’s libber” who thought she had all the right stuff to lead the show.
I have met this awful type of hostile woman in the church and frankly, I am glad they leave. They mess up my beautiful vibe with the men in leadership. When a bossy woman’s libber gets in there and starts ranting about “gender equality” I want to absolutely gag. Men and women working cooperatively in church leadership is a beautiful thing. Trying to “one up” each other is a disaster. Competitive and aggressive women who often desire to “knock men out” of leadership should step back and get their hearts and minds right with the Lord.
This is not to say I haven’t met some men who need correction about women in leadership. I have. However, after 25 years in leadership I have to say I have met too many bossy, controlling women who didn’t want to work cooperatively with the men but who had some kind of deep seated grudge against men in general, who often made unkind statements about “how all men are” and who weren’t interested in looking at their own prejudicial attitudes about the male gender garnered from negative childhoods and negative church experiences.
The wholesale stereotyping of men in leadership seemed to rule their hearts and minds and finding men in leadership who fit their preconceived prejudices gave them ammunition to open up barrels of aggression in church meetings or to immaturely stomp off when they didn’t get their way, effectively cementing their already seething prejudicial attitudes, that “men are all pigs.”
I am so glad these women have left the church because by their wholesale prejudice toward the male gender in churches they showed they were unfit to cooperatively lead alongside male leadership. I regret to have to say this but the American Woman’s Liberation Movement has produced a disgusting aggression among American women that does not facilitate peaceful cooperation in church leadership.
The Kingdom of Heaven is much more about leadership. It’s about serving the needs of the people. How that gets accomplished is a matter of careful consideration. Not every denomination works the same way. I invite everyone who has “left the building” to find another building to walk back into. I guarantee that you will be much happier if you keep attending. The more you stay away the more your prejudices about the church will be cemented. You can always find some Christian or some church leadership to bash. That isn’t hard to do when you have deep seated prejudices from a bad experience. I invite everyone who has left to forgive and try again.
Your expectations and prejudices are probably the problem. Remember that the Church is made up of imperfect human beings. To bash all the males is really unfair. Females who want to be in leadership need to look at their own motives. Everyone needs to ramp down their aggression and hostility concerning gender issues in America. Jesus taught cooperation among males and females not competition. If you have been hurt by a competitive church atmosphere I assure you there are many churches out there where you can find kindness.
Susan Hall said
am July 9 2010 @ 7:34 pm
hey jim,
i did a small qualitative study of evangelical women for my doctoral dissertation in 2007 and found that indeed, they say these very positive things…while at the very same time they tell stories of sexism and marginalization which they explain away and justify. they dismissed and invalidated the meaning of any experiences that didn’t fit the “right” picture of the church. they would literally say that even though they couldn’t speak in front of the church, they had complete freedom because their men were representing them and speaking for them.
from my therapy-lens, i think that they failed to see the limitations as limitations because their experience would then be dissonant with their theology, and then they’d be in a heap of confusion…which they can’t tolerate…so they claim all this good freedom stuff that simply doesn’t jive with the reality of a sexist institution.
i would want to ask some other probing questions about the practicalities and the realities as i think they’re simply not seeing the systemic oppression for what it is. just my two cents!
kt said
am July 9 2010 @ 8:09 pm
I have to say Liz’s post made go “ouch.” I think this is a limitation to comment streams like this one because things can sound hurtful. I’ve posted twice and I want to say if my post seemed insensitive or condescending I ask for forgiveness. I’m not implying Liz’s was either or these. It just called my attention to how our posts can be interpretted.
I too believe servant leadership is the earmark of being a follower of Christ. I think it should be noted that many of the words used in these posts have related to function, calling and gifting. It seems many have struggled with how following the calling on their lives has put them at odds with doctrinal teaching about women or further made them feel un-submitted and rebellious.
Lastly, though I am one who has “left” the big church, am no less involved in the growth and health of body of Christ I call home. Additionally, oh do I understand the bossy women dynamic. They go to house churches too and cause a lot of trouble there as well. I also understand the need for doctrinal understanding and training. Without sound teaching we are vulnerable to feminism. Without sound teaching I have also seen a pendulum swing the other way. There seems to be “new” teachings out there that come just short of women donning head coverings. Paul warned us long ago about the doctrines that would skew the true revelation of Jesus. We are no less vulnerable today.
I appreciate what you’re saying Liz. I also feel grateful that there are places where women are honored and given opportunity to bring their gifts to strengthen the people of God.
Doreen said
am July 10 2010 @ 12:56 am
I wish it was possible to comment directly on other people’s comments…..
My initial reaction – who responded – Stepford wife church women?
If 63% of the responders were born-agains, then I tend to believe SOME of these results (and then 63% of responders are probably not UCC).
People are lying when they say the media has little influence on their decision-making, that fear is not something they experience ever or often in their life, and that they do not struggle with jealousy. (Maybe if they thought they were answering these questions in the context of CHURCH they were not lying.)
Maybe the 62% who say that ALL leadership roles are open to them in their church mean that all leadership roles they think are appropriate for women are open to them?
To the person who wrote, “Women want men to marry, raise children and go to church with them.” Many women are single by choice (and happy), and some women are happy with women (some even married to one, raising children, and going to church with them).
Looks like a case of respondents answering the way they think they thought they were expected to respond.
Rebecca said
am July 10 2010 @ 1:09 am
Wow. Re-reading this post along with all the comments as been eye-opening. When I first saw this post last week, I noted that while my own experience tends to align with the survey results (points 1-5 & 8,) I didn’t believe for a second that could actually be right.
This is interesting because my own views of women in the church have changed/formed in the last few years as my local congregation has opened all roles to women, including elder and pastor. Our denomination allows each congregation to make this determination, and there are many who do not allow it. My pastor is definitely supportive of women in leadership, and was very encouraging to me particularly as I recently began a term as a deacon in my church.
I was further intrigued by the posting of Susan Hall’s comment, and the other comment which suggested the survey only really shows that women tend to belong to churches that already match their beliefs. That, I think, is where my gut reaction came from. I know too many women who are taught the “traditional” view of women in the church, and for whom it would be entirely objectionable, if not considered sinful, to even question that role.
As regards points 6, 7 & 9, I have to agree with the other commentators: I can’t possibly believe any of these are accurate or honest responses.
And one last thought – the title of the post is interesting: “Things going great!” It reminds me of those Sundays where it was everything I could do to make myself get to church, barely got through the service without breaking into tears because I was so sad or stressed, and calmly said “fine” to all the “how are you”‘s after church before escaping to my car. Just like those kind of Sundays, I don’t think things are going great for women everywhere in the contemporary church. However, with thanksgiving and praise, I am grateful that I can honestly say my experience has been good.
Lisa Jones said
am July 10 2010 @ 2:35 am
Well I must say I agree with almost all of these statistics, even the fear and the jealousy ones. Although they are something everyone struggles with at times, they can be overcome. The Bible says “God has not given us a spirit of fear” and “perfect love casts out fear”, so the more you meditate in and understand the vast love of God, fear definitely diminishes. Since everyone is in a different place of revelation and walk with God, it’s hard to generalize these things. Especially to conclude that because you experience fear often, someone who says they don’t is blatantly lying or deceived. Maybe that person just has a greater revelation of the love of God than you do!
That’s what got rid of the crippling fear I used to live under.
As far as jealousy, I do experience the temptation to be jealous of the women/people in church leadership, or the marriages that seem perfect in areas where mine is struggling. But I’ve learned that appearances can be deceiving and that we all struggle in different ways. As soon as the thought comes into my head, I cast it down and realize that’s just a “wile” of the devil. So honestly, I could classify myself as someone who doesn’t experience jealousy. I realize that God created me to be me and focusing on other people will only make me unhappy and won’t change anything. As someone who struggles with weight, I’m not jealous of women who don’t, I realize that all I have to do is exercise and eat right and I could have a good body to. Why waste my time being jealous? God has only provided the grace for me to be ME! Maybe there’s a correlation between women who are happy in church and women who experience less fear and jealousy….?
I’ve recently joined a big non-denominational church in our area. Women are elders on the board and in pastoral roles. However they also believe in marital submission, which I wholeheartedly agree with! I love my church and I love going to church!
As a mother, I’m very grateful for all the people that serve in the nursery! And there are men in our church that do it too! I also serve in there. I think we were all meant to have different parts in one body. God has gifted some women to be leaders and some men. No role is less important just because there is less “fame” involved or the number of people touched is smaller. I go to church to serve God, grow spiritually, and to serve my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and hopefully bring other people into the family, I don’t go for personal gain or recognition or to have “success”. We must all do what God has called us to, but with the proper motives of serving Him through serving others with a spirit of love. I don’t consider “being in leadership” to be my gauge for success or failure. My gauge is “am I doing what God has called me to do”? I believe that is what I will answer for when I meet Him in heaven.
And personally, I find great satisfaction in cleaning my house and taking care of my children. I’m not going to generalize and say that all women should feel like I do, we’re not all created to be carbon copies! But I’m not lying or deceived when I say the traditional woman roles bring me great joy and satisfaction! I think in general, God made us that way. I mean, our bodies are made to conceive, grow, carry and feed the children, doesn’t it just make sense then that God also made us better equipped to take care of them?!?! And what’s more glorious and important then raising children and seeing them become good, happy and healthy adults? It might not get as much fame, but it’s a lot more valuable if you ask me! Plus, I hear a lot of women say they work because staying home is too hard. So who’s really escaping reality? Well I won’t be your judge, go to God and ask Him to reveal your motives, that’s the best we all can do.
If a woman is happy in church serving in the nursery and ladies Bible studies, then good for her. If you feel like God has called you to lead in some way, then God will guide you to right church if you’re listening for His direction, and good for you! Just make sure God is promoting you, and you are not promoting yourself!!!!! Men or women!! Then, if you are promoted, it will be in a spirit of peace, which is in line with scripture.
Sage H said
am July 10 2010 @ 10:45 am
Very interesting to hear the comments. I appreciate Lisa’s thoughtful exposition of her comfort with the survey, and I think it is very important to hear that.
It seems that the evangelical church offers a “whole package” for both women and men (and I am a man). The roles and responsibilities are fairly well defined for each, and it seems that a sense of comfort and belonging are promised for those who participate. It also seems inextricably wrapped up in devotion to God, and what that is supposed to look like and feel like. It offers the framework not only of how to go thru life, but of who one is.
It should be of little surprise to hear that things are great! If they are not, it is really your own fault, and you just need to get with the program.
Those who do not think things are great are mostly outside of the program. Is that because the program is so bliss-inducing, and living outside of it leads to secular hell? Or is it right to be able to question things within the program? What a beautiful way to follow Jesus in loving our neighbor, when we ask God’s children how they are really doing! More so than checking in on how well they are staying with the program? Unless our faith in the program seems to be the same thing as faith in God. That can be a tricky one.
Christ called us to confess our sins to one another, a brilliant and unexpected form of healing. There are a couple of different ways that confession can be done, though. One is deeply personal, for the sake of the person. The other is the kind you do in a little box for the sake of the big box. If it is done to strengthen and preserve the program, it is missing the mark. If it is done to strengthen and preserve the soul of the person, it is right on. In practice, there is a mix of these things.
I’m concerned when I see a lack of confession by both men and women inside of the program.
Leroy said
am July 10 2010 @ 11:23 pm
Interesting coments, views and opinions. Many mem alsdo, have failed to use their “gift” because of the fear of failure. This is especially true of those who do not know if the “Call” was from God or not.
But one thing that was interesting to me was ther lack of supporting Scripture in all the above responses.
I came to the conclusion long ago that I have nothing to do with the role God’s word tells me is mine.
If I let envy, jealousy, love, or whatever, begin to have a psrt in my “Calling” when I do, I sudenly do experience a great fear. I have found most emotions such as the above, when used as evidence of my calling, I immediately feel I am on shaking ground.
The point is, whatever I think God is calling me to do, I must support it with scripture. If i think the scripture is unclear, I find strength in just choosing the higher road rather than my personal feelings.
For me, God’s word is very clear, whether i like it, want it, is beside the point.
I am male, as you you8 have already determined, but I can still feel my heels digging into the concrete when god called me to teach. 35 years later, the imprints are still visable! Am I afrid, you bet! As one of the responders said, Thanks be to the strength that the Lord gives me.
God bless you all in th role that God has called you. rEAD 1 Corinthians 12
Jules said
am July 11 2010 @ 11:16 am
I find this article and comments facinating. My personal view is that having been a devoted woman of church I would have definately agreed with these statements. However, I am no longer a devoted woman of church and see through the eyes of two experiences now…and if I had agreed to these statements it would have been untrue. But to answer them truthfully at the time would have brought about consequences that I was not ready to deal with.
I would love to see the exact same questions posed to women who have now left the church…I think the results and comparisons would be extraordinary.
Doreen said
am July 11 2010 @ 11:41 am
BINGO – women who could not answer truthfully for fear of the consequences!!! Not all of them have left the church, especially not the ones married to pastors. (I will now write in a sealed envelope what I predict the response will be, and from whom I predict it will come, LOL.)
Dan said
am July 11 2010 @ 7:06 pm
I wish the survey would have indicated whether their church is complementarian or egalitarian.
If you polled all the females responding here, they would probably 100% agree they are in a church that backs their current beliefs and that the church leader supports them as women – as they left their previous churches and found new ones that did, or became part of house churches. So if this group here was asked that question about their CURRENT church, it would be 100% that they are in churches NOW that do support them.
I see so many positive things happening in the church with equality with men and women as I travel. I know I study and look at more of the church plants and new churches reaching younger people overall. But I think there is such refreshing change happening.
But I do agree with Mike C. here, where he says people will gravitate towards churches which aligns with their beliefs.
Now with the influence of media and the jealousy question, those results seem inaccurate to reality. So who knows. I don’t really pay attention to national statistics anymore. We do local surveys and specific ones when we want data and every time they don’t match the national ones, normally not even close.
Jim Henderson said
am July 11 2010 @ 9:08 pm
Dan
Thanks for weighing in and please help spread the word about this fascinating survey
We would have included the technical terms but I felt that the trade offs weren’t worth it since those words are laden with lots of emotional meaning and many churches probably don’t use them or don’t know about them.
But all things being equal it would have provided for more accurate reporting – but since all things aren’t equal…
brad/futuristguy said
am July 11 2010 @ 10:22 pm
While these statistics may seem fascinating, I’m not sure they are exactly factual, or even truthful in the bigger picture. If we readers are not given such aspects of the survey as the context, the ways the questions were worded, how the survey was conducted, did men or women or both conduct the survey, denominational demographics, etc etc etc – then how can we attempt to interpret the information rationally and make applications wisely? The only thing left is to respond emotionally and/or intuitively.
Is it possible that what we have been handed here is the equivalent of a brightly colored puzzle piece … dazzling, indeed … but with no box to get the big picture, no corners to anchor where your survey piece fits into that picture, we have no idea of the rest of the picture – or if your piece even goes with the rest of the puzzle that surrounds it.
The fact that you are getting so much push-back from peoples’ individual stories might be a strong indicator that at the very least, this survey needs a huge amount of case-study work and/or depth interviews to confirm it, moderate it, or overturn it. Or, it may need to be completely redone or presented in a revised form using suggestions like those Dan Kimball has made on the ecclesiological/gender-leadership context of their churches. Otherwise, sadly, I think you have wasted your money, and may actually be wasting your readers’ time and effort and emotional energy.
And, if you plan to wait until you publish your book in 2011 to give that kind of fuller background/demographic information, I think you’ve done readers a disservice here, unfortunately.
Jim Henderson said
am July 11 2010 @ 11:14 pm
Thanks Brad
All surveys are limited – the entire survey will be available in the book and people can determine the veracity of the stats for themselves (which is what humans do anyway)
I have come to believe that when it comes to humans there is no such thing as objectivity – only observations
brad/futuristguy said
am July 12 2010 @ 12:11 am
Thanks for your response, Jim. Very glad to hear that the entire survey will be in the book – that’s responsible, and I appreciate it, as I distrust surveyers who refuse to disclose the exact questions and methods used and yadda-yadda.
And maybe I’m just in a cranky mood, but if we have to wait until then for information on the context and methodologies of the survey you contracted with the Barna Group, what purpose did it serve to post some of the seemingly tantalizing “fruit” of the survey without letting people know what kind of “tree” it came from? Using your term, as an observation, I’m not sure sharing the partial picture was a responsible approach …
Pam Hogeweide said
am July 12 2010 @ 5:59 am
I blogged about these stats last week before I went away for a family camping trip. Here is in part what I wrote:
Here are my highlights of why these stats do not match my church experiences:
Jim is a friend. I know he has put a tremendous amount of time and energy into this book project. The stats, in my opinion as a storyteller, add that crucial element of conflict and drama.
I am surprised, always, at how much of a hot potato topic this issue is for so many people, men and women alike. What would happen if women started speaking without censors what they really think and feel?
The grip of traditionalism keeps women (and men) in a closed system.
I really, really hope that this book of yours, Jim, will become a key for a whole lotta brothers and sisters for breathing in the free air of
Galatians 3:28.
Jim Henderson said
am July 12 2010 @ 10:14 am
Pam
as always – thanks and this project would not have happened without your help
Brad
there are marketing and contractual reasons for not coming out with all the info on the survey
Hannah said
am July 12 2010 @ 6:34 pm
If you’re interested in a more narrative take on women’s experiences in the evangelical church, the book I edited might be of interest. Here’s a review:
http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/recommendation-and-review-jesus-girls-edited-by-hannah-faith-notess
Emily Hunter McGowin said
am July 12 2010 @ 8:07 pm
I was advised about this survey and your request for comment by a visitor to my blog.
I just wrote a blog post about my personal realization that at least one reason I have pursued a career in academia is because of my inability to find a hospitable place to serve in a preaching/pastoring capacity within the local church (at least, in my own evangelical tradition). So, as far as I’m concerned, you can probably count me among those women who have already “left the building” due to the limitations of traditional evangelical churches.
But, like many of your readers, I am VERY surprised and somewhat incredulous regarding the statistics you’ve shared. Frankly, they seem a little too good to be true. I have a few thoughts about why these women may appear so happy with their church situation, but of course, I’m not an expert and I can’t prove them. So, for whatever its worth…
First, I think evangelical women, in general, are under tremendous pressure to appear happy. We receive messages from every corner that truly godly women are happy and content with their lot in life. “God is good all the time!” I would imagine that the pressure of this expectation doesn’t disappear when asked to respond to a survey, especially a church-related survey. What woman reading Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer wants to be heard complaining about her church? Its just not becoming to a “woman of faith.”
Second, I think there’s also a general aversion to appearing “feminist” (however they understand it) among evangelical women. In many ways, feminism has lost among evangelicals because so many women who value family, children, and other “traditional” things feel threatened by aspects of the secular feminist agenda. So, once again, when given the opportunity to express dissatisfaction with the church’s support of women, they’re going to side with the “traditional” over the “progressive.”
Finally, I wonder how many women actually know what their pastor, elders, or church leaders believe about women’s roles. I wonder how many of them know the real limitations that are present in their congregations. Most of the time, especially in contemporary evangelical churches, these limitations are unspoken and remain so until challenged.
For example, a friend of mine visited a non-denominational “community of house churches” in our area. She asked one of the pastors who in the church could be an elder. His initial response was, “Anyone.” But, she pressed the matter further and said, “So, as a single woman, I could be an elder?” His response was, “Well, no. If you were a married woman, you and your husband could be elders. But, not single women.” And, she replied, “So, anyone can’t be an elder.” He said, “Uh, yeah. I guess not.”
Furthermore, just on a practical level, busy “churched” women are spending most of their time at church corralling their kids, working nursery or Sunday School, attending Bible studies and conferences, etc, etc, etc, and probably don’t have the time or inclination to look for a “leadership position” beyond what they currently possess. Out of sight, out of mind.
Anyway, as an evangelical woman in her late twenties, that’s just my two cents worth. Thank you for sharing these stats and accepting comments.
Christy said
am July 12 2010 @ 9:11 pm
Among those women, 63% met the survey criteria for being a “Born Again Christian.”
Just out of curiosity, what was the survey criteria for being a “Born Again Christian”? Did the women self-identify as born again or were they assigned that label based on their responses to other questions?
Was there any official survey definition of “leading” or “leadership”? I would imagine that you would get very different answers if you asked, “Can a woman be a senior pastor at your church?” or “Are there any women pastors at your church?” vs. “Does your church value the leadership of women?”, which could be interpreted any number of ways.
Dan said
am July 12 2010 @ 10:21 pm
It would be interesting to look at churches who are complementarian and yet are connecting well to culture and you don’t hear bad stories from in terms of females feeling oppressed or not respected.
Image Dei in Portland, where Donald Miller is a part has only male elders. Mosaic in Los Angeles with Erwin M. is complementarian.
jim Henderson said
am July 13 2010 @ 2:40 am
Christy
visit http://www.barna.org for their definition of Born again – and no the leadership term was not well defined in the survey
Dan
I was wondering/thinking the same thing. I know that there are traditional churches where women apparently are fine – tell them to drop by
Emily
your comments were articulate and incisive
Christina D. said
am July 13 2010 @ 10:07 pm
I spent the first 28yrs of my life in traditional Baptist churches. It wasn’t until my husband and I had served over 8 yrs in youth ministry that we became incredibly uncomfortable and dissatisfied that we changed vocations completely. Because we spent a tremendous amount of time working with female volunteers for children’s and youth ministry (who were 80% of the “workforce” in the churches), we began to see that some of the most educated and spiritual individuals in the church were the women. However, because they were women, they could only use their gifts to minister to children and youth. This level of what I now see as discrimination only increased when we took a ministry position in Tennessee (moving from Missouri). I remember having to learn very quickly to keep my opinions to myself, and to be content with my positions. I felt muzzled. Even though we co-labored in the ministry (I was interviewed right along for the position), I was never considered employed by the church or had any authority beyond an average laymen.
Similar to what Emily stated above, I think that young women, wives and mothers are taught that to complain about this unfair treatment is being a spiritual weakling… it is more holy to be quiet and content. I can hardly stand to attend women’s Bible studies because I feel like a lot of study material is dumbed down for women… or that the studies only focus on motherhood or marriages. Although I am both a wife and a mother, my spiritual life and interests extend well beyond those roles.
To think that these women who were surveyed said that they don’t struggle with jealousy or fear is ridiculous. I would also add that most of them would be surprised to hear what their pastors thought about women in leadership. Why would a pastor let the majority of the church volunteers know that he felt that they were incapable of leadership. That would be pretty short sighted on his part.
My husband and I have been involved in a progressive, non-traditional church for almost 3 yrs now. Part of my deprogramming process was seeing that I, in fact, was capable of leadership in the church (beyond the kitchen committee), and my opinions were as valuable as my husbands concerning spiritual things. It has certainly been a Damascus road experience… GRACE…and freedom in Christ.
jim Henderson said
am July 14 2010 @ 1:34 am
Thank you Christina
Liz said
am July 14 2010 @ 11:16 am
I am a lay person and these statistics do not match my experience at all. I have basically left the institutional church so I guess it is possible that the women who are still there are buying what they are being sold but I was surprised at the results. The state of things (how the modern American church treats women) is discouraging enough but to add these results on top of that is depressing.
Three Things Tuesday – Emergents Retreating?, Christian Women Oppressed and the PCUSA 219th GA GA « Grace Rules Weblog said
am July 14 2010 @ 12:09 pm
[...] Hogeweide and Kathy Escobar have written posts in response to a recent Barna survey of Christian women requested by Jim Henderson of Off The Map for his latest writing project about how the modern [...]
BJ Cassidy said
am July 14 2010 @ 4:43 pm
“9. Only 1% say they often struggle with jealousy”
This statistic alone makes me question how valid this sample group is in comparison to women of the nation.
Since I deferred pursuing my advanced degree, and spent years serving the church in leadership positions, largely because I had been sheltered from seeing women in ordained ministry, I can say with reasonable assurance, that women who do not know otherwise, are not likely to experience jealousy. However, those who see the possibility of a call to ordained ministry being lived out by others and feel the call is also their own, those women are much more likely to struggle with jealousy, and frustration of ability to live out one’s call. Those who fit the second class, in large number, are very unlikely to remain in any Church which continues to suggest they should be content in their roles of helper-servant, rather than fulfilling their calling to use their spiritual gifts of leader, and/or apostle.
Sue Monk Kidd writes eloquently of her experience in Dance of the Dissident Daughter. I suspect that telling resonated strongly with large numbers of women who ultimately pull away from Institutional Christianity as a result.
Nan Maurer said
am July 15 2010 @ 2:04 pm
FAITH MCLOUD STATED: “For what its worth, I think a huge part of the problem may be a screwed up view of the Trinity. Many of my women friends come from a tradition that views the Trinity as a hierarchy and that humanity is modeled after that hierarchy.”
I fail to see anyone cannot see hierarchy in the Trinity? Jesus deferred to His Father. He “sent” the Spirit. Is there some kind of belief that hierarchy determines value and (in)equality?
If you could argue that there is no hierarchy in the Trinity, the line of reason against hierarchy extends beyond gender. The three persons of the Trinity, being God, are decidedly male in expression. There is no gender issue. Thus the idea that hierarchy is somehow inherently a bad thing must extend into all realms of redeemed life: church polity; the work place; who calls the shots in emergency situations. But no one orders his or her life without hierarchy. Someone is always “in charge” and the person in charge is in charge, based on some criterion.
Thus the idea that hierarchy itself is an evil thing doesn’t hold water.
Sage H said
am July 16 2010 @ 1:23 am
Hi Nan,
I see some bold assertions there. Like this one-
“The three persons of the Trinity, being God, are decidedly male in expression. There is no gender issue. ”
Well, if you are willing to look at it, there are different ways of seeing things. Just in terms of grammatical gender, the gender of “Holy Spirit” varies according to the language used. The grammatical gender of the word “spirit” is masculine in Latin (“spiritus”) and in the German language (“Geist”), while in the Semitic languages such as Hebrew (“רוח”), Aramaic and its descendant Syriac, it is feminine, and in Greek it is neuter (“πνεῦμα”).
The Holy Spirit is referred to within language as male, female or neither.
Similarly, God is referred to as a “mother” in the bible, metaphorically speaking (if you are willing to read the bible as metaphor) That would mean that God the Father is also metaphor for our great God who is beyond our frail and limited understanding, but who loves and cares about us intimately, thru his love, as does a parent.
.
I agree that in many situations hierarchy (as a way of making lines of authority clear) helps in many real ways. If I have to go to the ER, I want someone qualified to “call the shots”, a head doctor, and I trust that when she does call the shots she will make good decisions because her training and judgement are sound.
When you said
“Someone is always “in charge” and the person in charge is in charge, based on some criterion.” ,
I do hope that you are not suggesting that the biological gift of a penis automatically serves as the prime qualification for being in charge of everything?
Pam Hogeweide said
am July 16 2010 @ 2:08 am
@Sage, if you ever come to Portland, I want to take you out for coffee. My treat!
@Nan, thanks for jumping in here with your POV. Gutsay of you to do so in a convo where you surely must realize it is in the minority. I respect that!
Ditto on everything that Sage said. I will simply add that
the Trinity is viewed by many as a triune interdependence of mutual submission. What if, in our hierarchal conditioned mindset we inadvertently interpret it like that? Is it possible that there is a filter that obscures some of our view of the holy trinity? Just a question…that’s all, just a question. What if hierarchy is a human construct?
Lisa Jones said
am July 16 2010 @ 2:35 am
Pam, I think it is obvious that God created the concept of hierarchy. He did it because mankind needed it I believe. Without it, there would be chaos. I don’t believe the Trinity had it or needed it in their spirit form. However, when Jesus chose to give up his spirit form and take on the body of a human being, then that did create hierarchy in the Trinity, simply because He was now in a human body and with it, took on it’s limitations. Although, I’m not someone who believes hierarchy equals inequality. I think you can have different roles/positions, and still be equal. I think making hiercharcy equal to inequality is definitely a human attribute! Hierarchy serves a purpose, but that puropose is not to say that one person is more valuable then another. That is my opinion on the matter anyway!
As a woman who has been raised in a Christian home (with a pastor for a father, although I have also had other pastors as well), being a woman has never played a direct part in the options I felt like I had in ministry. I have never been told I can’t do something because I am a woman. When praying about a new church and thinking about the attributes that were important to me, I never even considered their opinion about women in leadership. As someone who agrees with the findings of this poll and would have answered similarly, I have found myself feeling very confused by the women who are accusing these women of lying. I keep thinking, “what consequences could they possibly have?” I just can’t relate. Why would anyone have to lie or fear consequences? God showed me the reason I cannot relate is because I have been blessed to be raised by Christian parents that believe women can pastor a church and no limitation should be put on me for being female. I have also never belonged to a church that believed women should not be allowed to teach men. I’m sad to see how rare that experience may actually be. However, in my heart of hearts I have always wanted to be a mother. I have happily put any ministry or career aspirations on hold to raise my precious babies (preschool and toddler age). I’ve even had to fight and suffer for it! I look forward to the day they are school age, and I have the time to serve more in my church or pursue a career further, depending on what God has called me to do. In the meantime, not only do I not resent my wife and mother role now, but I love every minute of it and believe this is the most rewarding job and exactly what I was created to do!
I was taken aback recently when a friend of mine that’s been coming to church with me said that she invited her friend to our church and this woman said she would not even come check it out, because we have women on the board and in pastoral roles (single women too!). I find that to be so bizarre, but hey, if that’s how she wants to think, she is more blessed to have peace and a pure heart following what she believes God has told her, then some women who know the truth, but end up with unforgiveness, bitterness and resentment in their hearts.
This is a tragedy yes, but God is so good and so much bigger than this! And there are a lot of churches out there that reject this theology! Jesus said it is impossible that offenses should not come. He never said “church” or “life” would be easy and perfect. I have had many offenses from church and Christians come at me and threaten my faith in the goodness of God or my desire to follow Him. So just know that if you weren’t offended by someone who was sexist in the name of God, then the enemy would just find something else to deeply offend you with. With the goal of getting you out of church first of all, and ultimately away from God or simply unable to bear fruit. Fear, jealousy, offense, all of those things are in the small bag of tricks that satan has. They absolutely can be overcome! We shouldn’t feel pressure to overcome them, we should be grateful that through renewing our mind by the Word of God and the power of a Holy Spirit dominated life, God has given us the ability to overcome them!! I hope you ladies who struggle with these things so much, are able to grow to a point where you display the fruit of the Spirit more often than not. Which are… “love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self-control”. Jesus was not disingenuous in telling us to be of good cheer through our storms! But it is not easy to get there. Even the disciples could not do it! But they didn’t have the Holy Spirit like we do today. They sure lived that way after Jesus’ resurrection! No church has “pressured” me to think that way, I simply believe the Bible!!!
Blessings to all!
Pam Hogeweide said
am July 16 2010 @ 1:18 pm
Hey Lisa,
Thanks for such a thoughtful and well-written reply. I am always encouraged when I meet women like you who have never experienced the injustice of sexism in the body of Christ. In my world, you are a rare species. I have one friend who grew up in a church where women were the same as men in celebrating and validating calling, etc… I remember her astonishment when she learned that this is often not the case for many of her sisters in the faith.
I think of women like my friend and you as Northerners. During the tragic history of slavery in our nation there was a free zone in the northern states. People there did not see slavery or experience it. They could live in relative peace without being affected by the atrocity of slavery just a few hundred miles away from them. It did not affect them.
I am glad you have not been affected. I hope that one day you will be the Rule rather than the exception. But that day is not today, nor likely tomorrow.
We will have to kindly agree to disagree about our views on the trinity and hierarchy. I respect your viewpoint, but I do not share it. I am of the wonderment if Jesus shed mutual submission with the Father and Spirit when he entered the realm of humanity. I agree that Jesus certainly appeared to have a hierarchical relationship with the rest of the Godhead. Yet I am unconvinced that it is eternally so. Instead, I see Christ choosing for his equality with God to be something that does not have to be grasped within his humanity. I think Paul wrote about this in his Philippian letter.
An author I know tells me that when he grew up he saw the disparity of power with Christian men and women. When he reached young adulthood his curiosity about this led him straight into the theology of the Triune God. How God relates to himself, he concluded, is the crux of the issue in how men and women are meant to co-exist. I am fascinated that here on this site the discussion has taken a similar turn.
As for bitterness and unforgiveness, thanks for the reminder. I think I can say with accuracy that most if not all people in this discussion are seasoned vets of the faith and have a lifepath that is dedicated to living out the grace of Jesus. Disagreement and passion can exist without malice. But thank you for looking out for us.
One last note, I totally support women who are home with their kids. Motherhood is one of the most important callings a woman can embrace! I have two kids and I stayed home for the early years. Any ministry responsibilities I have picked up over the years have revolved around my foremost commitment to my family. It is the never ending tension for women everywhere to spin the plates of family, home, work, social, spiritual and community. I for one see no shame for the woman who is able to choose to be a full-time at-home mom. It gives her less plates to spin, that’s for sure!
Blessings on you Lisa and your young family! My kids are now teens. It’s a different dynamic in my home and for the first time in more than 16 years I am looking to replace my part-time job with a full-time job…and go to college!
(to my brothers reading this: note how Lisa effortlessly talks about her family in the same breath as theology. Women are sooo relational. We can talk Jesus and bible then kids and grocery shopping with out barely a turn signal. It’s how we’re wired!!! Appreciate your women for that!)
BJ Cassidy said
am July 16 2010 @ 5:29 pm
@Lisa..you said, “I have found myself feeling very confused by the women who are accusing these women of lying.” This is not reflective of my intent.
I for one, did not read into the comments others made on this comment thread that this pool of respondents was accusing the original body of respondents of lying. It would be more accurate to characterize my interpretation of their responses as being genuine, but too limited in number, and that the individuals responded with genuine affirmation based on, perhaps, having not known any other acceptable response. This open pool of respondents happens to hold differing views. We come into this as an uncontrolled, non-statistically valid “sample”.
I too appreciate your opinions and know there are many women genuinely satisfied and fulfilled in their ministry positions. Thanks be to God.
benjamin ady said
am July 17 2010 @ 12:04 am
The fear one got me too. I would love to know the further breakdown–71% say fear is not something they experience ever or often–how many not often, and how many not ever? How does the figure compare to the U.S. population at large–has anyone asked a question like that in a large study–how often are you afraid? That is, are these women more or less afraid than average?
Jim–I’m with you on the left the building thing. Clearly the church in the U.S. overall is shrinking, and didn’t Wicker find that the evangelical church is shrinking *super* fast? Perhaps those who are going to leave have mostly left?
Christina said
am July 19 2010 @ 7:04 pm
I have to disagree with these stats. I usually don’t question Barna, but something seems quite wrong here. I would like to say more, but I think I’d be able to write my own book to refute these findings if I went on. I don’t want to be a pastor, or a preacher, but I think that women have a very active role in the kingdom, and I don’t see the church affirming many women’s callings. Having gone to seminary, I have heard first hand the frustrations of women who feel called to lead and are told they cannot. I think if Barna were to poll women who attended Bible Colleges and seminaries that the statics might be different.
Christina said
am July 19 2010 @ 7:22 pm
My other thought is…that those of us who are questioning this are among the 18% who are not affirmed by our churches’
Cote Soerens said
am July 22 2010 @ 1:15 pm
It is unclear if the sample of this research is a good sample at all. The Barna group may as well have gone to the most conservative churches in the country and surely would have found that “84% say that their church’s perspective on women in ministry is almost identical, very similar, or somewhat similar to their own.” Many women internalize their roles of submission to the point of not even considering other possibilities. That is why oppression works so well, because it becomes an internal process, and chronically and massively oppressed groups stop imagining. I thought for years that my only chance of being in ministry was to be a pastor’s wife or a single missionary… and I’m a somewhat smart feminist!
Needless to say that this 84% is the result of combining the total of the answers of three alternatives of the four given on a Richter Magnitude Scale (answers: “almost identical,” “very similar,” “somewhat similar,” or “not similar at all.”) That way we can easily find 84% of anything in any survey with a normal distribution.
regarding “83% say that their Senior Pastor is somewhat, highly or completely supportive of women leading in their church,” It is not clear what the respondents understand by “leadership.” This may as well be “yes, I’m supportive of women leading the children’s ministry as long as they aren’t the lead pastor of the denomination.”
As for “81% say that their church provides women with the same degree of leadership opportunities as Jesus would.” Really? As if anyone in the evangelical Church would have a problem putting their own believes and agendas in Jesus’ mouth. This sounds to me like “of course! Jesus would want to protect women, so we should do the same and not expose them to the pressures of leadership.” which I’ve heard from many men and women.
To me, Jim is just messing with all of us by showing us these statistics and using our reactions to get a lot of traffic into his blog and tons of great material for his book. Which is smart
I’d loved it if you’d hire a secular organization to make a real survey. It is common place that the Church is over 90 years behind the Women’s Suffrage Victory.
Jim Henderson said
am July 25 2010 @ 1:15 pm
Cote
Thanks for taking time to craft a detailed response
I know you did it as a favor to me
You are correct per the problem with the word “leadership”
being a rookie to the (very expensive) world of polling (you only get one shot)
I didn’t oversee the process closely enough and certainly in hindsight would insist that we use different language
However if the stats had agreed with the views of my more progressive friends I doubt that anyone would have questioned the process – or at least not nearly as closely as it has been questioned- do you notice the silence of those who agree with the stats on this blog – they take our complaints as further evidence of our unwillingness to see the truth and reality that women are really really happy out ter in evangelicalism.
So my approach will be to simply include many of these comments in the book and hope that it will foster a larger more authentic dialog
Peter J. Walker - EmergingChristian.com said
am July 25 2010 @ 5:26 pm
Pam, I appreciated your response in regard to the Trinity. I believe that while Jesus of Nazareth submitted himself as a human, this did not undermine the hypostatic union of the Cosmic Christ’s equality and interdependency as part of the Trinity. Outside of cultural mutations, the Orthodox position of the church has affirmed the equality of all persons of the Trinity. There’s a great book (you’re probably already familiar with) called The Trinity and Subordinationism by Kevin Giles, that does a pretty good job of identifying how the Trinity was co-opted by misogynists, and the Son and Spirit subordinated to the Father to counter modern American cultural trends toward egalitarianism (particularly in the workplace).
Someone mentioned Imago Dei and other culturally-relevant churches that are complimentarianism. I wish I could name names, but as an Oregonian, I can assure you that I know PLENTY of women who have fled Imago, frustrated and hurt by its “kinder, gentler” brand of chauvinism.
This is probably problematic for a white male to say, so forgive me, but sometimes I wonder if Evangelical women’s “satisfaction” with their place in the church is akin to “house slaves” in the 19th century South, who appreciated not being “field slaves.” Sometimes the oppressed choose to settle for “better” or “good enough” instead of fighting to stop their oppression altogether. I don’t say that lightly or without sensitivity – I’ve never experienced oppression. I can’t imagine how exhausting it would be, and how tempting the option of “good enough” might be…
Manuela said
am July 27 2010 @ 2:30 am
The results seem vastly unreal to my experience in and understanding of many branches of evangelicalism (17 years worth). It is more than evident that evangelicalism itself has maintained a predominant male hierarchy in it’s teachings and interpretations of scripture to a greatly male-biased extent, I do believe. There are refreshing exceptions, but they are few and far between.
There is definitely, also, not enough data about the survey to make a decision as to whether these findings and responses represent reality as a whole whatsoever.
I am glad a bigger part of the picture is being revealed and that it will be somewhat represented in the book…
KAM said
am August 4 2010 @ 8:47 pm
I would like to know who was surveyed…it was not a random sampling. The results do not reflect the majority of voices in our conservative churches today….they may represent the part line, but not the average church goer. It is a very sad situation, when women who are on fire for Christ do not have the opportunity to serve in ways God has equiped them to do so. Yes, women are fearful…how can you not be, when Pastors and Leaders in the church have rejected your calling, life experineces, your leadership ability, and they FEAR YOU? I was not prepared when I entered Dallas Seminary in my 40′s for the backlash I recieved. I was told not to talk about my ministry leadership experiences because it might be held against me. What I had considered business and leadership stregnths on my resume became a source of FEAR by those in pastoral and seminary leadership. After 10 years of being beat down, I still struggle with self confidence (which had not been a problem for me before), fear of rejection, and anxiety when I venture in to new areas of ministry. I know God has healed me, but the scars remain and the memory of the trauma is still there.
Bet said
am August 6 2010 @ 3:05 pm
My short answer: a year ago I was attending a PCA church and I could not have answered questions 1-4 positively. In fact, the current pastor did not like woment reading the scriptures and whenever we installed new deaconesses, he made a big fuss about deaconesses being “appointed not ordained”.
But now we attend an Episcopal church, I never have to ask the question, “Can I do this?” I have no desire to be ordained, but I do want to serve as a lector and Alpha discussion group leader. And I can, with no fuss.
Amy Jo said
am August 9 2010 @ 8:42 am
Being deeply involved in my church as volunteer staff and ministry leader – I’ve even heard many women make similar statements and have even had probing conversation with ministers/pastors on the subject.
But – I would argue that these are “in vogue” views. Women like to believe that their church supports them in leadership. Men like to believe this too. These opinions seem to keep the peace.
If you really want to know the status of women in church leadership … your research should also include (and I realize it’s probably too late) – how many women are in volunteer positions, how many paid church positions (leadership – not administrative) even interview women, and how many leadership positions are offered to women. This is where the disparity lies between what we say we believe and what we do.
2ndly – Even among women I hear frequently hear the comment “I believe in women leading – but I am more comfortable / used to a man in leadership.” – this from women in key roles of leadership. I wonder how many feel this way because deep down they fear being accused of rabble-rousing.
I believe a comparison of volunteer/paid hours worked by men – vs. volunteer/paid hours worked by women will shed light on the gap between what policies we pay lip service too – and where our allegiences actually lie. Or – as a different approach – you could research how many women who graduated from church leadership related collegiate/graduate programs are actually working in those fields compared to their male counterparts. You could even interview women who were working in full time church leadership in the past and see if they still are. If not – then why? I have many friends who in spite of gifts and moral integrity cannot even secure an interview – so something must be going on.
I’m sorry I just saw this question today – a month after it was posted. Thank you for the opportunity to respond.
Amy Jo Van Arsdall
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Loralee said
am November 15 2010 @ 1:21 pm
Statistics are only as solid as the questions posed and the demographics surveyed. One key flaw in the Barna study is it should have surveyed women already in leadership or wanting to be in leadership positions in churches and women who have walked away from or given up on leadership within the evangelical church world. A 5 minute search will show that the Assemblies of God, a denomination that boasts of its support of women in leadership and one of many where women were part of the founding leadership of the denomination, reveals that out of over 800 district positions, not a single one is held by a woman. Again, those same stats will show that while thousands of women are licensed less than 10% actually make it to ordination. Why is that?? And let’s not even go to salaray comparisons where many women, equally as qualified as their husbands for pastoral ministry, are expected to work for FREE because they’re married to the pastor.
As a woman who graduated with honors from an evangelical Bible School, the personal experiences of overt gender discrimination I have experienced in 25 years of ministry, in addition to the experiences of many of my peers (one of whom is a Harvard PhD), are alarming. Women within the patriarchal system fear political retaliation or being branded a “feminist” for speaking out. I, too, have held my silence and chosen to go outside the church to exercise the gifts and calling of God. This silent exodus of called and gifted women unfortunately has left the Body of Christ to function as an amputee.
While the corporate world has HR laws and a court system that holds it accountable for equitable policies and practices, the church world has no such accountability. Perhaps it’s time for the silence to be broken?
Sister Hanna said
am May 2 2011 @ 4:51 am
My Dear Brother In Jesus Christ
Christian loving greetings to you in the most highly exalted name of
our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
God has privileged me to introduce myself and my ministry to you through this. I am sister Hanna Ribcka I have been doing the church work and service of the Lord for the last 6 years. I am studying Intermediate. The Lord has
entrusted 3 churches to me. A few of Sunday schools and youth meetings with me in the work of God. Our main purpose is Children Work. There are many orphans in all our churches. Some have no mothers and some have no fathers. Many of them have not both the parents. They
are without shelter, food and proper. They are away from
parental love and comfort. They are away from food many times in a month. Their condition is very pathetic. James 1:27 says, “To visit orphans in their trouble is pure and undefiled religion before God, the
Father.” I am bringing their miserable condition there are only ‘five children “ to your kind notice. If you want to know more information .I can send you the details of All these children are conveying their loving greetings to you. Kindly keep them in your precious prayers.
I shall look forward to your kind and favorable
response prayerfully and hopefully.
We are waiting for your soon response .
Yours in Jesus Christ,
Sister Hanna Ribcka
Susan Stout said
am October 31 2011 @ 10:37 pm
I have read all of the above and each and everyone appears heartfelt.
I don’t think there is more that I can add other than to boil it down to the smallest of equations. If your church does not (which most do not and we girls know this…) afford women what Jesus died on the cross for then how can we be happy, satisfied, confident and fearless?
An Analogy for Men:
Here’s a billion dollars. Spend it however you see fit to spread my gospel.
An Analogy for Women:
Spend some of it but definitely not all of it and if you spend more than you were suppose to… well then you’re in trouble.
And Jim and Lisa… (I realize I may be way past the due date here but my guess is you’re stilling reading these…) the main cast of men in my life are Christian, supportive, uplifting and in complete agreement with me so I’m not a bitter woman that has an ax to grind against men.
My world, as I would have it, is nearly perfect. But just like the white men and women who knew slavery was wrong, whose lives were nearly perfect, had they not stood up to slavery, it might very well exist today.
I believe…. which is biblical… we are all equal in every sense of the word.
Thanks for all of your work on this project.
Sue
Peter J. Walker - EmergingChristian.com said
am October 31 2011 @ 10:41 pm
Great analogy, Sue. I completely agree.
Peter
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